¡¾Tom Szaky¡¿He was born in the 1980s in Hungary, a former communist country. He dropped out of Princeton University and started his business by raising earthworms and collecting feces, focusing on organic recycling. Today, more than 25 million people in more than 20 countries and more than 100,000 recycling sites around the world participate in, join or benefit from his company's recycling chain. In 2011, his company generated $14.2 million in revenue and has been profitable for three consecutive years. His advice to the post-80s generation in China and the United States: "Complaining is the stupidest thing I think!"

Tom Szaky wears a green baseball cap and a comfortable but worn-out gray hoodie. The edge of the collar of the close-fitting white T-shirt shows traces of coffee stains.

I was born in a communist country in the 80s

Through a "wall" made of transparent large soda bottles, Tom Szaky sat on a swivel office chair that was recycled from the company's waste, his hands resting on a desk made of discarded door panels, tapping on an Apple computer (finally something that was not recycled), and his eyes did not have time to leave the computer screen, "Please sit down, please sit down, sorry. I'm in a hurry to send an email. Wait a minute!" This was his opening remark.

Looking at the company's CEO: wearing a green baseball cap, a comfortable but worn-out gray hoodie, and a close-fitting white T-shirt with traces of coffee stains on the edge of the collar. While typing the computer's Enter key exaggeratedly, he leaned back, crossed his legs, and said with an apologetic smile, "Finally done, sorry, hello, welcome to TerraCycle."

Seeing the business card handed over by the author and introducing himself, he quickly said, "Sorry, we don't have business cards, only stamps, I'll put it on your interview booklet for you. There is my contact information on it." His behavior seemed to remind visitors again and again that this is a recycling and environmental protection company.

The first impression of Tom was formed: he was quick and decisive, seemed to be very principled, and was easy-going, polite, and informal.

When he learned about the concepts of "post-80s" and "only child" in China, Tom "flirted" without hesitation, "I was also born in the 80s, I am the only child of my parents, and I was also born in a communist country."

"I really grew marijuana in my school dormitory"

In 2001, Tom came from Toronto to Princeton University, one of the Ivy League, and began his study abroad in the United States. Although he was studying in a prestigious university, he was restless. Tom said frankly, "I really grew marijuana in my school dormitory." (Note: This is absolutely illegal in the United States.) But his entrepreneurial blueprint in the United States also started with illegally growing marijuana in a two-person school dormitory at a world-renowned university.

Tom heard that earthworm feces can be used as fertilizer to promote the growth of marijuana. So he thought that since this thing can promote the birth of marijuana, it must also be applicable to other fruits and vegetables such as potatoes and tomatoes. So, while growing marijuana in his school dormitory, he also started to raise earthworms, collect feces, and convert them into fertilizer. The food for the earthworms is the leftovers from the school cafeteria.

A 20-year-old guy who spends his days with earthworms and leftovers, most girls would not dare to approach him easily. Tom also admitted that all this did not sound very glamorous at the time, but he was really focused and fascinated by it. "I am who I am. If a girl doesn't like it, it only proves that we are not on the same path. There is no need to force it."

Tom's theory of "different paths, no mutual aid" applies to his love view and his career view. "If someone comes in and feels uncomfortable seeing me and my company, then just leave," Tom said with his arms open. If a financial investment banker in a well-dressed suit is considered "tall, rich and handsome", Tom's requirements for external clothing are completely in line with the "loser" standard: casual and even sloppy.

The ¡°No. 1 CEO in the U.S. under 30¡±

In 2002, Tom dropped out of college as a sophomore and devoted himself to the organic nutrition business and the company he founded, TerraCycle. Tom has always firmly believed that the decision to drop out of school was not difficult.

For Tom, founding TerraCycly is his seventh entrepreneurial experience. When he was only 14 years old, he earned his first pot of gold in five figures by founding a web design company. After many entrepreneurial experiences, he clearly knew which was more important, career or study. Even when his parents in Toronto doubted Tom's choice, Tom responded decisively, "My family can doubt, but I don't care."

TerraCycle's business model is to use direct cooperation with non-profit organizations and large companies (especially food companies that invest heavily in packaging) to recycle their renewable and recyclable (Upcycling) resources, and process these recycled raw materials without causing harm to the environment (such as redesign, material decomposition and fusion, etc.), so that they can be "resurrected" and reused to make profits.

In 2004, TerraCycle achieved a breakthrough and successfully cooperated with well-known retailers such as Walmart to sell organic fertilizer made from its earthworm manure, which also made him known as "the guy who plays with earthworm manure".

In 2006, TerraCycle was selected as "The Coolest Little Start-Up in America" by Inc. magazine, and Tom was also named "the No. 1 CEO in the United States under 30 years old", which proved his strength.

In 2007, TerraCycly stopped selling organic fertilizer products and expanded to waste recycling. Tom said frankly that the idea of entrepreneurship expansion was the result of discussions with senior elites in the industry. In his opinion, it is crucial for young people to have someone to guide and give valuable advice when starting a business. "It was they who made me realize that organic nutrients made from earthworm feces are not the whole of entrepreneurship. The whole process - turning decayed into sustainable and valuable things suitable for purchase is the value and innovation of my entrepreneurship!"

TerraCycle's business model is to use direct cooperation with non-profit organizations and large companies (especially food companies that invest heavily in packaging) to recycle their renewable and renewable (Upcycling) resources, process these recycled raw materials without causing harm to the environment (such as redesign, material decomposition and fusion, etc.), so that they can be "resurrected" and reused, thereby making profits.

Big people will also make time for you

In 2011, the company achieved revenue of 14.2 million US dollars and has been profitable for three consecutive years. Tom said, "I have completed the role transformation and am more of a person who gives advice to others."

"I don't think it's my responsibility, nor do I think it's a kind of feedback after getting it. I just enjoy and am excited to do it!" In his view, the tradition of guiding other new entrepreneurs has become part of the American entrepreneurial culture.

On the road to entrepreneurship, there may be a blockbuster, or dangers, or twists and turns, or a dead end. When most young people think that those seemingly high-ranking entrepreneurs would never care about an unknown person, Tom always speaks out: in the early days of his business, he used to chat with Lee Scott, then president of Walmart, every month to get entrepreneurial advice. Tom said, "If someone like him can give me an hour a month to communicate when I was nothing, anyone can give time to others. In fact, sometimes you will be surprised to find that those big people who you think are too busy will also make time for you."

Never give up on things you love

He never wastes time on things he doesn't care about, but he is extremely focused on things he loves.

Walmart extended an olive branch to him and needed him to supply earthworm manure fertilizer in large quantities. But at that time, he didn't have a packaging line at all, not even a unified packaging, so he started to collect recyclable plastic bottles from household garbage in residential areas near Princeton. First, the concept of earthworm manure fertilizer being organic and environmentally friendly would not be tainted by large quantities of newly manufactured plastic packaging; second, it would recycle waste and reduce costs.

Until one day when he was discovered and driven away by the police while collecting plastic bottles as usual, Tom realized that his "win-win approach" was illegal. Then he turned to cooperate with non-profit organizations such as schools and churches to buy back plastic bottles at a low price, and the problem was solved. But this is exactly how he deals with difficulties in his career: racking his brains to find a way out and never accept giving up.

Advice to young people: Never complain!

Faced with the difficulties of many post-80s and post-90s college students or graduates in the United States, some blame the education system, some complain about the poor economic environment, and feel that they are born at the wrong time. People of the same age around the world, including China, also face this problem.

In Tom's view, no matter what, don't complain about the current situation. "Life is unfair. Complaining may get you sympathy, but other than that, it's useless." Tom said excitedly, "Complaining is really the stupidest thing I think! In the end, you will still be the one who solves the problem."

Today, more than 25 million people in more than 20 countries and more than 100,000 recycling stations around the world participate in, join or benefit from TerraCycle's recycling chain. Even in the most difficult moments of the company's market development, Tom always used "Okay, guys, how do we deal with this problem?" as a "pre-war call". Facing the unpredictable future, Tom seemed to be at ease, "I look forward to sitting down with my team to face challenges and solve problems."

Interview transcript:

Sina Finance: In China, most children born after 1980 are only children, and we call them "post-80s".

Tom: It's interesting. Although I have spent a long time in North America such as Canada and the United States. But I was born in Budapest, the capital of Hungary, a communist country still under the influence of the former Soviet Union at that time, and I am also an only child.

Sina Finance: You were very young when you left Hungary for Toronto.

Tom: Yes, I was born in 1982. Considering the unstable political factors, my family left Hungary in 1986 as political refugees. First I went to the Netherlands, and then when I was 7 or 8 years old, I went from the Netherlands to Canada. Then in 2001, I came to the United States to study in college and start a business. Now, I have permanent residency in the United States.

Sina Finance: So you are a Canadian citizen?

Tom: Yes, I am a Canadian citizen and a Hungarian citizen, and I also hold a US green card. Not bad!

Sina Finance: Was there a special reason or historical reason for choosing Canada as your destination at that time?

Tom: The failure of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 caused the generation of revolutionaries between my grandparents and my parents to choose to flee, otherwise they would have been in danger there. Canadian immigration is indeed very liberal and easier than the United States. Just like we went to the Netherlands first at that time. In Europe, political refugees would first go to the Netherlands because it is easier.

Sina Finance: But you experienced all this with your parents?

Tom: Yes, it was all arranged by them, and I was just a child, following behind. I only remember that I was often told "we are leaving" and I had to wait in line at various embassies countless times. Especially if you are a refugee, you are destined to always wait in the longest line. So at that time, I had no idea why these things happened. I didn't know until I grew up.

Sina Finance: So now you know everything that happened at that time.

Tom: Absolutely. We set up a branch in Budapest, the city where I was born, six months ago. It is also our fourth largest site in the world. This gave me the opportunity to go back and take a look. The biggest feeling I have is that I am really grateful for our decision to leave and all the actions that I couldn't understand at the time. Compared with those who stayed in Hungary at that time, they didn't have the same development opportunities as I did in North America.

Sina Finance: Do you think you have the opportunity to start a company like this in places other than the United States?

Tom: Of course not. Of course, I am comparing to North and South America, Northern Europe, and the Middle East, which I am relatively familiar with. As for Asia, I dare not say. But we will indeed set up our first batch of Asian sites in Australia and Japan. But in terms of the environment I am familiar with, in North and South America, Europe, and the Middle East, if you want to start a business, I feel that the difference is like day and night. Of all the regions, I think only in the United States, it allows crazy young people like me with crazy ideas to find money to start a business. Unless you already have a lot of connections, such as you have a wealthy family, etc., everything becomes much easier. But for people like us who start from scratch and don't know anyone, I think the United States is still the best. This is also related to its culture. In the United States, you can feel that the media and the outside world are very supportive of the story of "entrepreneurs succeeding and realizing the American dream." Immigrants can also realize the American dream. Not only do they want such an American dream to be realized, they are actually taking action to help. This means that these supporters are taking risks. I feel that "If you go bankrupt, it doesn't matter. Give me your next idea." But if the same situation is in Europe, people there will not take risks on you. If you screw up, it's hard to get another chance to start over. It's basically a mechanism of "making the rich richer and the poor poorer." I think that in Europe, perhaps the best personal development is to become a senior employee, but this is not working for yourself. You may make hundreds of thousands or millions a year, but there is no entrepreneurial spirit. Even in Canada, which I am familiar with. I originally thought I could complete the financing in Canada, but all my money was obtained in the United States. Latin America, Europe, Canada, these countries and regions prefer hereditary accumulated wealth (old money), only the United States is a country that likes entrepreneurial wealth (new money). I say these words not to deliberately make people think that the United States is an optimistic country, but this is the fact, and this is what I have experienced.

Among the countries and regions I am in contact with now, South Korea and Japan are the places where I feel it is the most difficult to start a business. Their preference for hereditary wealth and control of capital flow make it difficult to move forward. This is also rare among developed countries. I have been to Japan 6 times and read some materials. If I remember correctly, Japan is the developed country with the least entrepreneurial spirit. I have been to South Korea more than 20 times, and I have the same feeling: being an entrepreneur is not a good idea. I think China is more likely to be different. I haven't been there yet, so I dare not say anything.

Sina Finance: You mentioned the people who supported you in your entrepreneurship, which includes the support of some individuals and of course the support of the policy environment.

Tom: I think there are three elements to support and encourage entrepreneurship. The first is the ease of obtaining capital. Let the rich give money to the crazy young people reasonably. At the same time, the psychological expectation of these investors should be "nine out of ten investments will fail". In other words, this investment is the least conservative and the most risky. The second is the legal system that is conducive to entrepreneurship. For example, if you go bankrupt, what kind of legal system will constrain the handling? In Germany, if you go bankrupt, you will be effectively excluded from the list of people who can set up a new company.

Sina Finance: So there is no second chance at all?

Tom: Yes, there is no second chance. The key point is that this also means that you don¡¯t have a third or fourth chance. Because you may succeed in your seventh business. Only when you get money that allows you to take risks will you get more opportunities. Instead of easily saying "you screwed up, there is no money for you". And the legal system is in the direction of the general environment. In the United States, you can register your own company in 1 hour. But if I want to set up a company in Israel, it will take 30 days. If it is in Argentina, it will be even more troublesome. Japan is the most troublesome. When we entered Japan, we were already a company with 110 employees, but the procedures were very cumbersome and a headache. I can't imagine the problems that companies starting from scratch have to face.

Sina Finance: Does this mean that they have to do everything slowly by themselves?

Tom: Maybe they won't start a business. The numerous obstacles are enough to make people give up. So the system, the system, including the tax system, etc.

Sina Finance: Is this also the part that entrepreneurs themselves cannot control?

Tom: It is completely out of control. The third point, which is the last point, is to have an entrepreneurial culture. This is also the most rare. The deepest part of American culture includes the entrepreneurial culture, in other words, the American dream. From nothing to everything. Americans love the story of "from beggar to billionaire". This culture can be reflected in many aspects. In the United States, there are various entrepreneurial clubs and abundant entrepreneurial resources. I am 30 years old now, and I receive calls from entrepreneurial youths younger than me almost every day. Usually, I will try my best to give my advice. I may have never met them and never know them, but this does not affect our communication. I did the same when I was their age. When I called for help, those so-called successful people would be willing to give me, an unknown young man, their precious time, sometimes even several hours a day.

Sina Finance: On average, how much time do you spend with these young people you have never met every day?

Tom: This is difficult to calculate, probably at least half an hour a day.

Sina Finance: You think this is valuable, right?

Tom: I don¡¯t think it is valuable, because I don¡¯t create wealth for myself by helping them. I don't think it's my responsibility, and I don't think it's a reward after receiving it. I just enjoy it and am excited to do it.

Sina Finance: These young people may be college students, and you may not know them by chance

Tom: I don't know them at all. I will suddenly receive emails seeking entrepreneurial advice. A young person in Arkansas can call me directly and ask for entrepreneurial advice. You know, I am not an exception. Most people like me will do this. This is a deep-rooted entrepreneurial culture. This is not available in other countries.

Sina Finance: But as your company grows, you may not have the time and energy

Tom: I used to talk to Lee Scott, the former president of Walmart, every month to get entrepreneurial advice. If a person like him can give me, who was still an unknown person at the time, an hour a month, anyone can give time to others. CEOs of multinational corporations will do the same thing. In fact, sometimes you will be surprised to find that those big people who you think are too busy will also make time for you.

Sina Finance: Are there any people who you think have guided or modeled your career?

Tom: Lee Scott is one. Seth Goldman, president of organic beverage manufacturer HonestTea, founder of organic nutritional chocolate bar ClifBar, Gary Hirshberg, founder of Stonyfield's yogurt, etc. But now, I have completed the role transformation and am more of a giver of investment advice rather than a listener. But when I was in my early 20s, these people were my students. But none of them invested money in me. Seth and I were partners from the beginning when we used earthworm manure to produce organic nutrients, which was also the only product we started with four years ago.

Sina Finance: In fact, the real start was in the dormitory of Princeton University.

Tom: Yes, it started from the university dormitory. It started with growing marijuana.

Sina Finance: Do you really grow marijuana in the dormitory?

Tom: Really. It was because we found that earthworm manure can promote the growth of marijuana that we began to develop and apply it to other plants, such as potatoes. This was 5 years ago. At that time, I communicated with Seth, and he helped me adjust the business model at that time. From a single organic nutrient to the current recycling of non-recyclable garbage. These business model adjustment decisions were made after my conversation with Gary and Seth.

Back to the three points I mentioned, I think most other countries in the world do not have these three conditions. I mentioned that China may be different and may have opportunities because China is rich now. And this money is basically new wealth (newmoney), not hereditary inheritance (oldmoney). This money has the potential to be invested in entrepreneurship, investment, and risk-taking. Many Chinese businessmen and entrepreneurs have indeed achieved from nothing to building factories, building houses, and getting rich. This entrepreneurial spirit that is different from that of the United States does exist. It¡¯s just that I don¡¯t have a say in whether the system and institutions help entrepreneurship.

Sina Finance: But you will consider entering the Chinese market, which also forces you to understand it.

Tom: Yes, we must develop in the Chinese market. For example, I know now that if we want to enter China, we must cooperate with local enterprises. This is a system that is not friendly to entrepreneurship. I believe that there are certain reasons for doing so, but from the perspective of entrepreneurs, it is unreasonable. Because in order to meet the second point I just mentioned (cooperation of the legal system), the government is required to set as few legal constraints as possible. Just like I like the style of the Democratic Party in the United States, but it is the Republican Party that helps entrepreneurship because they try to avoid government intervention in business.

Sina Finance: From what you have seen and heard, can you feel the helplessness of American businessmen towards the government, especially the impact of the financial crisis on small businesses.

Tom: This is a difficult question to answer, and it is also a topic that people are often misled about. Because when we mention entrepreneurs, people usually define it as anyone who starts his personal entrepreneurial experience. But if you just want to open a dry cleaning shop or restaurant, and have no ambition to expand or develop, just plan to do it well and pass it on to my children and grandchildren to run it in the future. I don¡¯t think such a business is called "entrepreneurship", it is a small business (self-employed) model. I think entrepreneurs should be those who have the ambition to make their business bigger and stronger. Maybe they didn't make it big in the end, but their original intention was to make their business bigger. If you see me again 10 years later and my company is still the same size as it is now, I will not be happy. So as for the government restrictions you mentioned, small businesses and entrepreneurial businesses are treated differently.

For small businesses, I think the financial crisis has dealt a huge blow to them. But for entrepreneurial businesses, it may have become more difficult to obtain capital, but there is no so-called "blow". Since the establishment of TerraCycle, despite the financial crisis, we have been growing every year, without stagnating or regressing in any year. Maybe the financial crisis has slowed down the growth of our company, but because entrepreneurial companies have the characteristics of rapid growth and sensational effects, the impact of the economic environment on us will not bring about fundamental changes.

Sina Finance: I read your column in the New York Times. Are you critical of the US government's policies on small businesses?

Tom: If I compare it with any other country in the world, I still think the United States is the best. My business started here and the headquarters is also here. So, I definitely think that the United States is the best country to start a business. But every country has room for improvement. No country is perfect. I often mention the legal system of crowdfunding in my recent articles. In the past, you had to have a considerable amount of assets and a certain level of strength to be eligible to invest. But now, anyone can join (Note: the JOBS Act signed by Obama). This progress is positive, and I cannot deny it. At the same time, if the law does not control crowdfunding, scams will also appear. This is also a question of legal balance.

Sina Finance: I heard that your company still gets some government benefits, such as taxes?

Tom: The benefits are completely insignificant. In fact, the company is located in the modern business district (Urban Enterprise Zone) of Trenton, so for example, if we need to buy some printing paper, we do not need to pay consumption tax. But compared with the various benefits we bring to this community and society. The benefits we get are basically worthless.

I personally don't like the government to have too much contact with us. I just hope that my business will not be disturbed by them. This goes back to what I mentioned before. I personally believe in the ideas of the Democratic Party, but in terms of business, I admire the Republican Party's idea of reducing government intervention in business.

Sina Finance: Being able to study at Princeton University is something that you and your family are very proud of, but you chose to drop out, or should I say lag behind in your studies?

Tom: Yes, I made such a choice, and I no longer have the intention to go back to complete my studies. I am probably in a good position to be a teacher at Harvard or the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. I highly respect academics. I left Princeton not because I don't like going to school. I have been very active in school since I was a child. I don't want to miss a day of class. But I prefer to do what I like and make my ideas a reality. If I return to academia one day, it should be as a professor.

Sina Finance: So when you devote yourself to entrepreneurship and leave school, this decision is not difficult at all.

Tom: Not at all. This is what I want to do. You know, TerraCycle is my seventh startup. The first six didn't do very well, including the first one in online design. For me, that was not an industry with high growth value. The first startup had no potential for growth, so I ended it quickly. Then I failed five times in a row, and finally succeeded in the seventh startup. I did learn a lot from the previous failures. So I always believe that failure should be allowed and faced with a smile.

Sina Finance: Has your family ever doubted you?

Tom: They doubted you, and they doubted you deeply. But I don't care.

Sina Finance: Do they live with you?

Tom: They are both in Toronto, both are physical therapists, very traditional and conservative people. They have always been more or less suspicious of me. But I told them that I don't care.

Sina Finance: Do they still doubt me until now?

Tom: Now they won't, they are very proud of me. But it was a few years ago that they changed their views. If I am determined to do it, they can't stop me.

Sina Finance: Have they had the opportunity to visit your company?

Tom: Yes, about once a year.

Sina Finance: I visited your headquarters and found that many of your things are related to charity. Is this kind of giving back contradictory to the pursuit of profit and money in your career?

Tom: The biggest motivation for my entrepreneurship is not "how much money can I make", but "how much change can I bring". There is no doubt that making money is important. Since 2010, we have started to make money and have profits. But what we contribute back to society is more than 50 times our annual revenue.

Sina Finance: Do you think how much money you make is important to you?

Tom: Everyone wants to be rich, and I certainly don't want to be poor. I also want to live a comfortable life. However, in the process of starting a business, I found that if I focus on the business itself, the money will come naturally. TerraCycle is a company that has many opportunities to interact with society. We care about how much money we make and our impact on society. The two are equally important and complement each other. The more garbage we recycle, the more money I will make, so the two are mutually reinforcing.

Sina Finance: What do you think you and your company should be like in 20 years?

Tom: I hope TerraCycle will be a billion-dollar company by then. I hope to have branches in every country in the world. Now we are worth about 20 million US dollars. The key question is how to turn 20 million into a billion-dollar company.

Sina Finance: As your company continues to grow, will you worry about the so-called drawbacks of big companies?

Tom: I am not worried. I am very much looking forward to such challenges. I look forward to sitting down with my team to face challenges and solve problems. For example, we will definitely enter China in the near future. But I will not be afraid of worrying. I will meet all new challenges.

Sina Finance: I always think that when you were in your early 20s in Princeton, raising earthworms in your dorm room, collecting unwanted plastic bottles and leftovers from the school cafeteria to feed the earthworms, such a boy would not be favored by many girls. What did you think at that time? What were you focusing on?

Tom: I was doing something cool, building my own company. My views on things like romance and not romance were influenced by my background. In Canada, I went to a boys' boarding school, so I didn't have a girlfriend in high school. I met my first girlfriend in an American university. For most Americans, it is a rare thing to fall in love at this time. Later, I dated a Korean girl for 6 years and was married for about half a year, but we finally broke up. I did learn a lot in the whole process. I think you have to pursue what you are passionate about and find people who share the same interests. In this way, there will be no problem of who changes for whom. If a girl is interested in me, then I am still me and I will not change. ,

Sina Finance: So you have never thought that the garbage recycling industry is not what the public calls a prestigious industry, and it may not be like some respectable industries that require suits and ties?

Tom: I have thought about it, and I am very grateful that I entered this industry with a purpose. Because I don't want to wear a suit for the rest of my life. I haven't worn a tie for 10 years, and I probably won't wear one in the future. The outfit I wear when meeting with the CEOs of large American companies is exactly the same as my current outfit. I hate working for others, an

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